A couple of weeks ago, my husband (Paul -- you should know him by name as he is likely to come up frequently in my blogs as are other members of my family especially my daughter, Samantha -- I hope to meet some of yours as well. Anyway, Paul and I were meeting a long-time friend and her newest boyfriend at a restaurant for dinner. We were there first (unusual) and my friend called to say they were running a little late because John was watching the end of some football game (which we had actually been watching earlier in the day). When they walked in, we did introductions and hugs and handshaking all around. When things quieted down, I asked John a question about the score of the game; he told us and I asked what did that mean (inferring that it had a meaning in relation to future games, championships, etc.)? He got my meaning but turned to my husband, gave a big wink, and said: "Well, scoring means something very different to men than it does to women, right, Paul?" My friend and I gave each other one of those sideways glances that you think no one can see, Paul did not comment but laughed a little, and the conversation quickly turned to another topic. However, Paul asked me later if I caught the gendered remark and its inference about men and women and I said: "Do you know who you are married to?" Of course I noticed.
John's remark might seem trivial to some but I was surprised that gender entered the conversation so explicitly, so early and in such a traditional way - of course, gender assumptions are always present and perceptions of what it means to be male, female, transgendered, etc. are also always present. John Searle's theory of "speech acts" looks at something someone says in terms of a speaker's intentions and the effects it has on a listener. Speech acts can function a performances that create a moral bond between speakers which is what I think John's intention was (and Paul thought the same thing although he called it "male bonding"). The only problem is, it didn't work -- Paul felt an emotional distance as a result of the remark rather than bonded, the "we are in this together, hey, buddy?" And it had a similar impact on me. Communication and gender includes all kinds of assumptions regarding who is with you and in what capacity -- when those assumptions break down, communication is, at the very least, side-tracked. I wonder about the social and cultural processes that come into play to change foundational assumptions over time?
First off let me just say...Gross!! Being that was the first time meeting (regardless if it wasn't) that was totally unnecessary and disrespectful and I am sure it was very awkward especially for your husband! This reminds me of a dinner I had with an old friend a couple weeks ago. We had not seen each other for about 6 years but had always been really good friends, or so I thought. Recently we caught back up. During our dinner the topic of sex was randomly brought up in which I made it very clear that it was not EVER going to happen. Enough said.
ReplyDeleteA week or so later I went out with my brother for a friends birthday and we came in early. I knew this friend of mine was out as well so I texted him to see if he was still out. I did this with the intention of GOING OUT to hang with friends. He was very short with me so I just stopped the conversation. A few days later I asked him why he was irritated when I text. He responded with, seriously responded with, " people only text or call that late for one reason and it wasn't yours so I didn't think it was important to respond." Basically since I was not calling for sexual purposes it didn't matter what I wanted. JAW DROP!! Now this is supposed to be a friend right? An old friend and a good friend?
I was instantly offended and disgusted. Needless to say I haven't talked to him since. Your story instantly made me feel the same way about your friend's boyfriend.Like you said, to some this might seem irrelevant or might make people feel the same way my friend did but it just reminded me of the gender separation especially in stereotypical ways of how women are caring and men are selfish. Personally as a woman I would have thought something happened to my friend and it would have caused me to worry. I wonder why it is that men and women follow, or so it seems they follow, a majority of the typical stereotypes. I have to question are stereotypes really stereotypes if the gender(s) conform(s) to them?
Kimberly,
DeleteWow! Talk about different relationship assumptions and expectations -- is there no room to just be friends?
Your question is interesting! I think "conforming" is exactly part of what constitutes a stereotype -- following the cultural pattern that is pervasive in the society and that gets communicated through many different systems/channels. Now, in our dinner situation, only one person out of four seemed to be following the traditional view (and inappropriately expressing it) -- Paul, myself, and my friend were all challenging the stereotype.... Do you think that's one way stereotypes get changed?
I think this comment was uncalled for and inappropriate, especially meeting the first time. I think it is funny though that he automatically assumed that Paul shared the same ideals as him (just because he is a guy), it seems childish to me. I am also surprised that you didn't say anything! It didn't have to be un a rude way or something but I am sure you could have came up with something quick and easy that would have trumped his comment. The whole situation seems a little awkward. I am curious if your friend said anything to you about it.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Adrienne, I hear you! My husband was surprised too that I didn't say anything -- and I was surprised that HE didn't -- we are both used to gently calling attention to this stuff. However, I've reigned it in a little lately and try to do what I think is socially appropriate in the context (first time meeting this guy, etc.) and not react to someone's else's perspectives until I know them better and see a pattern that seems to be problematic -- then, I definitely speak up. How about you? How do you handle these offensive gendered exchanges?
DeleteI think that's kind of a weird comment to make to someone your just meeting and trying to make a good impression on. I find it weird and uncomfortable when people make those kind of comments in public, especially when its to people you're meeting for the firs time. I'm also surprised that he didn't answer seriously when you were the one who asked the question and not your husband. I think some men may talk like that when they're with other men but definitely not in front of other women. Guy seems rude and disrespectful, your friend should dump him!
ReplyDeleteNick,
DeleteI think she's going to! I do think you're right about men (and women) handling gender issues differently when they are with people they assume have the same gendered perspectives -- what do you think is going on there? what assumptions might they be making?
I find this very awkward for you. If I was in your situation I would feel obligated to say something. It's shocking and embarrassing to your friend how inappropriate this mans comment was. Also, he may have not been taught the right way to communicate while women are present. He may not have had a mother figure in his life who was telling him how to behave towards other woman. He could have been raised by his father or uncle or grandfather. It's all based on background and family influences.
ReplyDeleteI think the young man did not know any better, he was trying to be funny and it did not work out in his favor. Maybe from other personal experiences he thought it would be ok to say. I say that he did know any better because,his remark could have been an outcome of a learned behavior. Maybe when he was growing up he was taught to show is masculinity by using vulgar jokes or references. With this said I do believe that the remark was uncalled for.
DeleteRebe,
DeleteInteresting point about how this guy may have learned about masculinity -- if that is the explanation (or part of it), do you think underneath his remark could have been the assumption that it was important for us to know upfront just how "masculine" he is?
Yeah I agree with Rebe, it sounds like he was just trying to make a joke and it just ended up making him seem like an ass. The sad thing is that this is just how people are,they do not know any better. I'm sure that this "John" guy is probably an all around good guy and he didn't mean any harm by it; however, therein lies the problem. John, and other people like him are going to keep making remarks like that because no one is telling them its wrong, no one is opening their eyes to the blatant sexism he may unknowingly be putting out there
ReplyDeleteGood points, Brandon. I also think about the steady immersion in cultural messages that keep saying to people like John (and all of us), here is the social norm, this is how you can express your masculinity and/or femininity. The hard part is that lots of systemic changes have to come together to encourage shifts in how you see yourself and how you see others.
DeleteI agree that this was a rude comment to make considering that this was the first time that you had met. I suppose this was his way to sort of break the ice, and try to, like you said "bond" with your husband, but it seemed not to work. It seemed though, that the only bonding that happend was with is wife and you. I say this because you two women shared the same response. "My friend and I gave each other one of those sideways glances that you think no one can see."
ReplyDeleteI also agree that the comment was rude, and it does sounds as if the man thought the statement would be funny, and he automatically assumed that your husband would be able to relate to it. He was just trying to break the ice by saying something that he believed was humorous. His intentions weren't to be rude, but the statement definitely came across as inappropriate and insensitive.
ReplyDeleteHi Dr. Crafton,
ReplyDeleteI've been in situations like this before, too. It's definitely not a good way to start off an evening! I grew up with my father constantly making sexist comments and flirting with everyone but my mother, and, in front of her. (They are not married anymore). Although he hasn't changed much in this regard, his behavior had an impact on me for a long time. My mother rarely put him in his place when this happened, so when I got married to my former husband, I went the opposite direction and didn't tolerate it when he behaved like that in bars, or at parties. (We're not married anymore either!). However, I now have a fantastic husband who doesn't think very highly of men who act this way. I'm glad that your husband has strong feminist views as you do.
That comment was defiantly uncalled for. I am sure he felt like a jackass when Paul did not acknowledge his comment. He probably wanted to connect with your husband right off the bat so maybe he thought making a gender remark would be the best ice breaker? Think again buddy!
ReplyDeleteI just want to throw in the idea of face negotiation theory here. This is the idea that people care about what others think of them and will do things out of the ordinary in order to connect or look good to certain people, like giving, saving, or losing face. John wanted to connect with your husband, but unaware that his comment caused him to lose face he is unable to correct his behavior in the future. He hoped the comment would give him more face, the face of a typical man. Had someone pointed out how his comment was making them feel there probably would have been a point where he tried to explain himself or save face.
ReplyDeleteThat happens to me all the time! Even with the tables turned and females making comments like that. Sometimes, if I realize what was said right away, Garfinkeling is the best response. Garfinkeling is basically when you do not give someone the response they were hoping for, which causes a social tension and, in turn, tests social rules. By Paul not going along with the comment, that's exactly what he did. Maybe by Paul doing that, John will actually think about the comment and hesitate to use it again.
ReplyDeleteHis comment was quite forward, especially considering that it was your first time meeting. I suppose he was just trying to be funny, or as you said, do some male bonding with your husband. I think he was probably trying to make a connection with your husband, considering that you and his girlfriend already knew each other. It could just be that gender was the first thing that he picked up on that him and your husband had in common and was trying to connect with him. Not to say that his comment was not inappropriate. How did that shape your opinion of him? Have you met up with him since?
ReplyDelete